Hey guys,
I'm going to do something different this week. I got this email recently from a guy seeking advice on dating an erotic masseuse. If this works out maybe I'll do more posts like this. Think of me as like a Dear Abby, but with handjobs.
I thought this would be interesting to talk about since I am probably the worst person in the world to ask for dating advice. As you may have noticed, I really really really don't like to talk about my dating life. If anything, I may be the perfect example on what NOT to do. But I'll try my best to give honest advice.
"Hi there. I've been reading your blog for about a month now after finding out that someone I've been seeing for a while (and I think I'm in love with) is also an erotic masseuse.
Finding this out has absolutely destroyed me, and completely fucked up the relationship. I've never been against prostitution and always took the stance that whatever two consenting adults do with their own bodies is their business and should be their decision. But finding out that someone who I know and care about does it has completely thrown that perception (along with my perception of her) on it's ear.
I really do care about this girl but I find myself thinking horrible things about her...that she's lying about the extent of what she does, that she is some kind of arrogant sex goddess that uses lonely men, a gold digging exploiter willing to break up marriages to make a buck, out of my league, slutty, promiscuous, possessed of low self-esteem and daddy issues, a bitch,
and on and on and on. And the sad thing is that before this I thought of her as a sweet, sexy, innocent, kind of dorky, kind person. It's as if all the things I have thought about her are impossible for me to think of her as now, and trust is basically impossible.
It really sucks because I felt like I was falling deeply in love with her before and now I just don't know how to deal with it. It's also incredibly confusing because even though it makes everything else in the relationship harder, it's also a huge turn on, even though I wind up feeling used and just lied to.
I always wonder about the regulars, about little extras, about moments during the massage where she actually has a good time. It's torture but I can't stop seeing her, although I'm thinking that it's not something that is going to be sustainable if things don't change somehow. There are moments where I absolutely hate her for it, for a variety of reasons from sexual to financial insecurity (I'm a poor college student and she can make 500 in a good night), but it also feels like if I can learn to accept her and trust her I could have something meaningful with probably the most sexually exciting woman I've ever met. Seriously, I'm dying here. HELP!"
Well let me start off my saying your initial reaction is pretty much exactly what I've seen whenever I've told a potential boyfriend about what I do. In fact I call that "Stage 2" of the "5 Stages of Dating An Erotic Masseuse."
Stage 1 - The Turn On
Stage 2 - Distrust
Stage 3 - Jealousy
Stage 4 - Accusations
Stage 5 - Breakup
You've obviously been through Stage 1. At first guys are usually turned on by my admission to what I do for a living. "I'm totally cool with that..." "Man that's hot!..." and even "Would you do that for me?" are some of the typical first responses. The problem though is that guys assume that if your job is sleazy, then you must also be sleazy. And sleazy is always a turn on - at first.
This leads me to Stage 2 - which you are obviously at. Distrust raises its ugly head shortly after the initial turn on. Guys start to assume that just because I'm having sex with them, I'm probably having sex with every customer who walks through my door. I know she claims to be a handjob only masseuse, but how can you really be sure? Two naked adults, alone in a room with soft lighting, and all that baby oil - how could they NOT be having a sex!
You seem on the verge of Stage 3 - jealousy. This is where you guys get it all wrong. What I do for a living is a job - nothing more. The happy ending is merely mechanical for me.
1) Up.
2) Down.
3) Repeat as necessary.
It's you guys that want to attach some kind of significance to it. I swear, sometimes guys are worse than girls when it comes to dealing with sex. Now if your girlfriend works in a handjob only parlor, then she's probably not lying when she says nothing goes on between her and the customers.
Are you worried that she might have a "good time" (Gawd forbid) at work? I really thought that was a strange choice of words. If she were a waitress and had a "good time" at work one day, would that mean she's in love with her customers? It's the same thing... I hope to get through my day with a smile on my face, but it doesn't mean I have to have a romantic "moment" with a customer. Heck - I'm happy if a customer just cracks jokes during his session.
One comparison that might help is how would you feel if your girlfriend were a stripper? A stripper's job is to give guys hard-ons. Sure she shakes her ass as part of the job description, but can you do that mechanically without being involved with the customer? Oh you bet - just ask any stripper! As a matter of fact, I dare you to find any stripper who can't manage to give more then 3 lap dances without falling in love with her customer.
One thing you said that I thought was interesting was whether your girlfriend is "some kind of arrogant sex goddess that uses lonely men, a gold digging exploiter willing to break up marriages to make a buck." This plays to the whole myth that sex workers (or women in general) have some sort of magical power over men. I hate to burst your bubble, but married guys who want a hand release from someone who's NOT their wife is a marketable commodity just like anything else. Your girlfriend brings home $500 a night because guys REALLY LIKE HANDJOBS - not because she has ulterior motives of enslaving men and unravelling the fabric of polite society.
You're not quite at Stage 4 yet - Accusations. Which is a good thing because your relationship can still be saved. At this point you basically cave in to all your insecurities and become convinced that she really is cheating on you every chance she gets. You can tell that a guy has reached this stage because the word "whore" becomes a major part of his vocabulary.
It's not a very pretty stage, and it's not too long before you finally hit Stage 5 - Breakup.
Of course if she's working in a full service parlor then chances are she is lying to you and getting laid a couple times a day. But like I said before, it's probably mechanical and she doesn't enjoy it - unlike with you.
And that's my 2 cents. Hope this helps!
CJ
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24 comments:
This makes the guy sound like a real douche - just saying.
"It's also incredibly confusing because even though it makes everything else in the relationship harder, it's also a huge turn on, even though I wind up feeling used and just lied to.?
Either you are good with it or not, no conflicted, confused, turned-on BS.
The Joker agrees with Matt here. Its funny that he is coming to you for advice.
So, he likes reading about the erotic massage. Probably has even contemplated it. However, heaven forbid if his potential woman gets involved.
Talk about your double standard. Hey buddy....bend over, I want to hear the other end talk too!
I agree with both these guys: he sounds like an ass.
"Be careful what you wish for", I always say. :)
I'm the guy that wrote the letter, and I have to say I'm surprised that the first three comments have been so negative towards me.
I don't know what type of sexual or relationship history some of you may have, but I never dreamed or hoped that someday I would meet and fall in love with a woman, and then find out that she is handsomely compensated for helping men ejaculate.
Jealousy and trust are issues in any relationship, but in my experience these are heightened in a relationship with a sex worker. Trying to cope with this has been an ongoing process, contacting CJ to get another opinion on this is part of the process. What's the problem here?
So please, walk a mile in my shoes before you judge me so harshly.
Then perhaps I wasn't reading in the manner it was written. If that is the case then perhaps I needed more coffee and an apology should be offered by me.
I agree with you that trust issues are ones that need to be taken care of before a relationship is entered.
As far as my sexual history goes, I believe that is fairly well documented, if you care to read it.
it's impossible for someone to give advice when they know nothing about you. You explained your situation well, but there are plenty of more things "CJ", or anybody else for that matter would need to know about you before they could begin to help you decide what to do.
With that being said.....
You sound more like you're afraid to break it off with her then you are confused by it. Maybe you haven't had much luck with women and you're afraid to let this one go for fear of being alone or fear of not being with someone as "sexually exciting" as her. You wanna know something you should have learned by now, there are lots of women out there and you don't have to settle.
She stands naked in a room and gives handjobs to strangers. It is what it is. If you don't like it, which you obviously don't, and if she wont quit, which she obviously wont, then move on. There are plenty of women who are sexually exciting and they aren't in this line of work. Go find one.
If you are indeed a poor college student then you might be in your early 20's and that would mean that your life hasn't even really begun yet. You'll get over it and look back on what was an exciting time, just not with the right person.
Interesting points of view here. My sister is an "erotic masseuse" nad has been for the past 5 or 6 years. I have no problems with it at all since it's her doing it willingly. She sees it a job and nothing more than that. Outside her job she is gay and living with her partner. However the prejudice is out there and is real. Her partner went through the stages that CJ described, so it's not just a boy/girl thing it apparently works the same in all kinds of relationships. However they stuck it out and are still together after 4 years. I think what helped is that her partner tried the erotic masseuse part for a while as well, and saw for herself that it is not the evil life that it is made out to be. It is no more than a job.
When sis first met her partner she did not want to tell her what she did and I found myself doing a lot of cover, however after a lot of coaxing from me she did tell.
I will admit things got tense between the two of them for a while, but once they adjusted they are fine.
Still though they do keep it a secret from most of their friends, the stigma is just too much.
Sis plans on doing this for another year or two till they have enough money saved up to move to a new place and "retire" Se seems to think that you can't give it up unless you move far far away.
You are being a hypocrite. You obviously have feelings for this girl but feel tainted because she's a sex worker.
You obviously have preconditioned thoughts on sex workers and most likely have experience with paying for a hand job, or going to strip joints, or the like as evidence that you read this blog.
You like this girl but are holding her occupation against her, even though you don't seem to mind the occupation, as long as it doesn't effect you personally. now that it has you have an issue. Almost as if the girls who partake in that kind of stuff are beneath you.
You don't love her.... if you did this wouldn't be an issue. If her being a hand job artist bugs you, then ditch her. Even if she gives it up for you, you will never ever be able to let it go.
Obviously you are the jealous type and will be tortured forever, and will always have this over her. t won't work out. Move on, or grow up
OK, I am posting this to Happyguy who had the courtesy of posting here.
Yes, I was harsh. And here is why. It is somewhat upsetting to me that you are putting the weight of your relationship on what she does for a living. You do not seem to really care for who she is. So I suggest you start putting a list of people together that you should not get involved with....
For example, Club Dancers, Female Urologists should be out...as well as Female Proctologists. Who knows, they may get off on that one good lookin guy that comes in and not tell you about it. Get my point?
You throw words like Love around but you can't seem to get past the fact that what she is doing is a job...to make money. Nothing more. You are showing your own insecurities here. You are showing that you would not be able to trust her because if the tables were reversed you would not be able to trust yourself.
So please, if you are gonna lie to yourself that's OK...but don't bullshit this Joker. If you really are falling in love with this girl, love her as a person first, then you will see that all the other stuff is just superficial...like makeup!
I think the previous anon had a good point. Maybe you should become an erotic masseuse and see what your girlfriend goes thru. Just like his sisters gf did. I admit it will probably be a bit weird at first. But with the right wig, make-up and mood lighting you'll pass for an ugly chick and get a first hand experiance of what your girl goes through for $500 a night. Just think of it as the job you've been practicing for since you were twelve.
I'm not sure why some of the posters are being so harsh here. Just because some of you believe you would be accepting and enjoy such a relationship does not mean that others would not have the problems mentioned. CJ dosen't even tell her boyfriends because of how common the problems are. And thats assuming that in such a situation you all really would react as you say you would(easy to be a spectator, more difficult to live it).
I would not date a sex worker in any catagory. Or perhaps to clarify, I would not date a *current* sex worker, but someone retired from that sort of life would be a possibility. I don't want to share my partner with anybody, monogamy just means too much to me. In the letter writer's situation, I would be trying to ascertain what her life goals are before continuing the relationship. If this was what she wanted to do, as opposed to something she is doing for more immediate needs, then she probably would not be the woman for me. If she had bigger goals, I would help her find ways to raise the money legally.
I have been in that situation with a foreign student before. She needed to work to pay for college, but her job was illegal since her visa did not permit it. I did the research and found out she could legally work at the college she attended. So I helped her find a job at the college and got her legal. A similiar principle exists here, find out her goals, and then help her find a legal method of achieving them.
Of course if she's doing what she wants to do, let her be. Its her life. Just decide if you can live with it or not. I could not, but perhaps you could.
CJ,
Off topic Question, why don't you have any ads on here? you get around 50,000 page loads per month. I'm not advocating putting annoying flash ads on, but just putting google adsense on here would probably get you some nice spending money, or if you're a saver get you that much closer to your tanning salon.
Get your internet guy to help you out.
NR
CJ -
The sentence "Your girlfriend brings home $500 a night because guys REALLY LIKE HANDJOBS - not because she has ulterior motives of enslaving men and unravelling the fabric of polite society" is comedy GOLD. Perhaps you can start a 1/3 tanning salon, 1/3 massage parlor and 1/3 comedy club.
Side note - word verification is "beast". Seems apropos somehow.
CJ,
I just ran across your blog today searching for some guidance in this area and just spent the past hour or so reading much of it. After nearly a year of seeing this one masseuse, I started to really like her. At first, I jokingly suggested she go out with me. We both had a good laugh. The second time, I was serious and she agreed. When the time came, she got cold feet. Third time's a charm, i guess, as we finally went out this last Friday night. It was a really nice date. With the exception of a small bit of heavy petting, I took her home and we kissed before she went in. That was it.
I really think I am falling for her and she has agreed to see me again. Unlike the guy in this thread, I clearly know what I am getting myself into. I've been around the block when it comes to massage parlors and never really felt compelled to ask out any of the other girls, but over time, she and I seem to have developed some genuine connection.
My question is about the transition to a sexual relationship outside of her work. I am starting out slow, because I want it to be clear I'm not just looking to get out of paying her. I just really like spending time with her.
Things seem to be mutual, but it is still pretty early. I'd really appreciate your perspective on this. It's not like there are a lot of people one could consult on this issue. Hell, I've had therapists who were pretty judgmental about massage parlors, let alone friends. Hoping to be your next "Dear CJ" letter.
Thanks,
-Optimisitc
Same five points go for having a bisexual girlfriend. Oooh HOT girl/girl action, w00t! at the beginning, but then, in my experience, guys want that to stop once they get involved.
And that's just silly.
If you fell in love with the gal while she was being who she is, then quit trying to change her. Accept or move on.
My gal can probably stop playing with other gals if I wanted it that way. But she'd be less happy, and why would I want that?
BUT if it bothers you now it'll bother you more later, probably, so choose wisely.
Dude, thsi really is over the top here......
"that she's lying about the extent of what she does, that she is some kind of arrogant sex goddess that uses lonely men, a gold digging exploiter willing to break up marriages to make a buck, out of my league, slutty, promiscuous, possessed of low self-esteem and daddy issues, a bitch,""
Hey, you a kid and you are concerned that she's gonna like some other guys wang more than yours. That you won't be da man in the sack cause what if it is more than handjobs and she's banging guys. Look, there is nothing wrong with her or you. You just need a little maturity. Have fun for now with the drama of it all - it makes a great story to tell the frat bros.
CJ you were right on about the stages in a relationship when the girl works at a Massage Parlor. I dated an attendant for over a year. I met her at the massage parlor, became a regular, we dated and she moved in with me. At first it was a turn on thinking about her jerking guys off, however she became less and less interested in sex, and I became suspicious. Even though I had visited her massage parlor and was never offered full service by her, I knew that some of the girls offered full service and made lots of money. Things got bad when I saw several zip lock bags full of used condoms in the garbage cans. When I asked her I was told that the management of the parlor did not want the girls who gave blow jobs or full service to put the used condoms in the garbage at the parlor, so they had the zip lock bags in which the girl was supposed to put the used condoms in and then take home to throw out. Many of the girls didn't want their husbands or boyfriends to see the bags so my girlfriend offered to throw them all out at my place since she thought I really didn't care. Jealousy escalated, and when my girlfriend took a week off to visit her sister, I visited the massage parlor. The girl I was with asked if I had been there before and then offered full service when I told her I was a regular. In the conversation that ensued she said that all the girls who worked there offered full service as it was the only way they could make money. On the way out one of the other girls recognized me, and told my GF when she got back. The fireworks started and we split up. It was an interesting experience, and I do miss her even though I know it wouldn't ever work. I still love hand jobs and I still visit massage parlors, and every now and then I will pay for the extras offered.
Matt, Joker, Riv,
Go easy on the guy... It's exactly as I described. It may start off good and there is an "undertanding" but then human nature kicks in and it all goes to shit.
That's why all my boyfriends date a shampooist.
Happyguy,
Thanks again for letting me post your letter and talk about this.
Anon,
I may not know Happyguy, but I do know how this goes. And I've seen it enough times to develop my 5 Stages. The guys always start off by saying that their "different" and they "understand." But it always goes the same way.
Joker,
You hit it right on the nose. Is it any different if your girlfriend fondles dicks or fingers assholes all day? I mean for me the happy ending process is so mechanical, I may as well be a doctor taking manual semen samples. And when you see most of the patients I have to work with - you would definitely NOT feel jealous.
Anon,
Working on the ad thing. My Techno-nerd has been on vacation, but thanks for reminding me!
Electricdaisy,
Glad you liked that! But in all honesty, everyone wants to read in so much into an act as simple as a handjob. It's something most guys do every night - yet you put it in the hands of a woman (no pun intended) and it turns into a diabolical plot.
Optimistic,
The key thing here is to NOT treat her any differently than anyone else. Remember - you're dating a girl, not a masseuse. She will respond to you as a girl until the moment you decide to treat her otherwise. Lay off the handjob jokes and don't expert her to give you a "freebie."
The next step will be whether you can deal with the realities of her job and your suspicions.
CJ
I think my female urologist is falling for me - she was acually nice to me when she was shoving a scope up my dick to remove my stent and wrapped her hands around me real tight to get a good grip!
See how silly??? Dude, it's just a job - ain't nothin wrong with it. Either you are cool with it or not.
(Reposted)
Full Service...so, OK, not all parlors/girls offer Full Service, but if you luck out and find one that does, what do you think a fair rate for all services should be? I have been to an Asian place, I paid $70 to the old lady when I was in the room, then the younger girl comes in and takes me to the table shower and scrubs me down...back in the room I lay $100 on the table and don't say anything and she massages me for a good 20-30 minutes and then blow job to slip on the condom and then fucks my brains out...now I was very nervous about being busted and with the help of what you have written will never go Asian again, but for $170 got a pretty nice lay...
So, if I get lucky and find a full service American Girl, what do you think fair compensation would be?
If you do go for the ad thing (please don't) consider that any ads that are not totally safe for work will mean a reduction in your visitors.
Happyguy - you say you love the girl...now`s your chance to prove it
I love all the posts by Joker_SATX , ever!!!!! Too bad he's probably mental IRL.... : ) All my love Joker_SATX !
The initial comments were harsh, but right on the money. Not exactly happyguy's fault because dating a masseuse is not for everybody, and especially not someone young and inexperienced. I think he should break it off before someone gets hurt. Get laid (a lot), lose your illusions, let the pussy fall off "the pedestal", get a lot of massages so that the whole thing loses its allure and mystery, and take a long look at yourself and your expectations about life and love.
After that, if you still wanna date a masseuse, why not, but good luck with that... lol
Contrary to what one anonymous poster said, it IS possible, however (done it, and with a full-service gal, no less). But it does take a lot of maturity. Just because you don't have it, you shouldn't presume to know about others, man.
I'll tell you that most masseuses I've met, and that's A LOT, were single and without much hope to change that unless they quit.
They had been burnt by guys who thought they could handle it, or they were too afraid to meet a guy, be honest, and watch them walk. Too many lies and shame in their lives for relationships.
The stages that CJ describes are spot on too for most, and providers know them all too well.
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