Wow - this topic took a turn I didn't expect.
What I was hoping would be a series of inspirational, heart-warming stories of husbands getting busted by their wives, turned very serious very quickly. Go check out the comments.
CJ
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35 comments:
That did get serious. Wow.
It was interesting though, no?
You want stories, OK. I started visiting massage parlors during my first marriage because our sex life has nearly died. My wife was aware it had to do with her lack of desire or conflict about sex. Going to parlors was a way for my to get sexual release without having an affair or paying for full service. I also went to a lot of strip clubs during that time. Eventually my wife figured out her problem - she's a Lesbian. We're both in new (10+ years now) long-term relationships and are still close friends. When she came out to me, I told her about the massage parlors and strip clubs and she understood. I realize at that point they weren't a threat to her, but still, she understood. I've only gone a few times since being remarried, and I don't know what my wife would think about it from a fidelity point of view. She did bust me one time about going to a strip club, but she was mad about the money. Frankly, I would go more often if I had the dough, even though our sex life is pretty good. Why, because I LIKE IT.
I understand why anonymous from the last post feels the way she does, but I wish she wouldn't. Emotional cheating is really what she probably suffered and should be concerned about. Getting a hand job or watching porn are harmless and meaningless in and of themselves. HJ massage is like having a good meal away from home. And although few women seem to desire such a service, if my wife wanted to get a hand job from a hot masseur I'd be perfectly OK with it. We both go for therapeutic massage and have talked with each other about being attracted to our therapists - hers male, mine female (fortunately, I have not had the Costanza experience of "it moved").And as to the latter, I just read about a study that wanted to compare men who looked at porn with those who didn't and they couldn't find any that didn't. So Anon may just want to stay away from men because they are certain to disappoint her.
Cook:
It ain't my business, and I certainly don't hold any moral high ground, but...
All other issues here aside, we shouldn't be pretending (or helping other people pretend) it's OK to get HJs on the side. If it's not OK with your spouse or partner, then you're betraying her trust - and that makes it cheating.
I'm hardly Mr. Squeaky Clean. I've gone to rub-and-tug parlors, and I may well do it again. But we need to face up to the fact that we ARE cheating when we do it.
And for the record, CJ is not engaged in the cheating. She's not the one with obligations to the spouse or partner waiting at home - the guy is.
And I'm with Cook - give us juicy stories!
Ciao :)
CJ
There was the guy who went to a brothel in poland and found his wife working there.
pat
I've seen about 15 FBSM provider in the last ten years. About half of them I had seen numerous times. Some I developed a real fondness for and spent sums way beyond what their rates were. I even paid off the car loan for one and was totally endeared to her when she paid me back 2 years later, even though I felt it wasn't a loan.
I've had 3-4 that were very accommodating with me massaging them anywhere I fancied. I showed one how her G-Spot worked and she was fascinated. A year later, she had her first female erotic massage client and called me to explain how to give a G-Spot massage.
My favorites were the Tantrikas I saw as it felt a bit more spiritual.
And yes, I was married the whole time, but my wife has slept in front of the couch for ten years and never comes to bed.
By the way, I'm the long winded anon poster from the previous thread and I'm a guy. I'm actually happyguy,the one who's gf was an erotic masseuse. CJ was right, it didn't end well.
CJ:
In the interest of getting a few more stories...
What about your techie nerd? Is there any particular 'payment' he gets for helping you out?
What about others getting benefits for services rendered? Atre there any times you've exchanged services, or even been tempted?
I've been going to massage parlors since 1975 or so and I've never come close to being busted. I actually developed a decent professional relationship with a few of the ladies, most of whom were fairly nice people. Just to put this in context, I've never been married and have no children that I'm aware of.
The deal with the massage parlor is that men go there to get what they can't get at home. They want sex without all the baggage that the wife or girlfriend drags into the bed. They want the attention without having to try and figure out what the kind words will cost them in the long run, and they're willing to pay for it. Everyone walks away happy.
As far as the married men go, what they've done is broken a promise. When they got married they promised not to screw around, and here they are - screwing around. What that should tell anyone who knows is this: you can't trust this man. He's running on a bent axle. He lied to his wife, and if you do business with him, he'll lie to you. Count on it. That isn't to say you should stay away from him, it is to say that you now have a known quantity. This is a lot like the clerk you catch taking a few bucks out of the till. You can hire a man like that, but you have to watch him and you can't let him handle the till. See?
CJ,
First time reading your interesting blog today. Really enjoyed it and look forward to reading the archives as well.
One thing I noticed is that you are not monetizing your blog. You seem to get decent traffic and I am sure your fans would support you if possible.
Have you thought about advertising in your blog? Adult related services an products would pay you for driving traffic to their sites. I'm sure dating sites like Ashley Madison, Cougar Life, Adult Friend Finder,ect or adult novelties like Adam Eve, Xtube, YouPorn, ect have affiliate programs.
Even having a Paypal account link in your blog may move some of your fans to send small donations your way. (ie. CJ needs a few $$ for a new iPad. Will enable more/up to date blog posts. Thanks for your donations!)
Think out of the box!
Tom
No wife forces their husband to cheat. No husband forces their wives to become distant.
Free will is a bitch!
The decisions we make will dictate the life we lead.
CJ only provides a service like liquor stores, legal marijuana, etc...
You don't have to patron if you don't want too.
Angry wives should blame their husbands. Angry husbands should blame their wives. CJ isn't to blame since she's not actively looking for cheaters. If not CJ, then they'll find someone else.
CJ... don't take these comments too serious. People feel better when they have someone else too blame. We all need to look in the mirror and stop pointing fingers at people.
Every time you point a finger at someone, there are 4 fingers pointing back at you!
Joe
wouldn't it be something if we could all just take responsibility for our actions, and try not to judge others along the way? my hubby and i have, through trial and error, figured out we're not good with the whole open-marriage thing, but we talk a lot about who we're attracted to, what we're attracted to, and what we need. he needs sex more than i do these days, but i do my part to contribute to the 'household' running smoothly. i need a quiet hour to myself in the morning + midday sex before the kids get home. HE needs hours of lovemaking; we schedule 'days off' + basically don't get out of bed between school bus pick-ups and drop-off.
communication is key here folks; open and honest, as best you can. i love cj's posts, as does hubby. i bought him a lap dance the first time we went to a strip club together, and it gave me pleasure to see how happy he was. if erotic massage is next, so be it. but years of hard work in the yes, i'm going to say it again, Communication Department, have helped us to understand that the talking first heads off a helluva lot of potential anguish. and when the going gets rough, as it definitely has in the past and may in the future, we talk. and talk some more. and then have great sex!
keep writing CJ- there's a book in you, or something bigger than this blog, and- at the risk of sounding corny-i hope you find your bliss.
heya CJ. My story isn't too interesting, but maybe you'd like to hear it. :)
I'm a gf of my longtime boyfriend (9 years), but during shaky times when we weren't together (almost 2 years), i don't know everything he did during those times, i never asked as i felt it was none of my business. but one day we got into some weird conversation, and somehow he started talking about how he visited a "massage parlor" his friend took him to.. and I was FREAKED out initially. I was more in shock than anything, and i calmed down but it just caught me by surprise. I was more livid about WHAT he paid for/ how far he went. He assured me he never did anything more than jerk off/have her jerk him off, she danced and whatnot, and he only visited twice. (Once with his friend, once on his own when he was just in the mood after a shitty day.)
Although I was a bit jealous inside, i had to think it through rationally: We weren't together at the time. I was in another relationship while we were apart so I couldn't judge him about what he chose to do while he was alone. I was honestly more worried about him buying something like "full service" and possibly being infected with something. Because that would be something that could affect us in the present.
We both watch/enjoy porn and "get off" on our own or help each other or do other things of course :) I feel our sex life is comfortable - we're very comfortable with each other and communicate. If he decided to go back to a parlor? I'd hope he would at least tell me. So that way maybe I could understand why he decided that and we could talk through it. But for the most part we're both very open to each other's kinks so... I would hope he doesn't have to head elsewhere for anything. :) He's even talked about taking me to strip clubs and I would just feel so embarrassed! Although I am not totally against the idea, I think it would be interesting.
But not every relationship is the same, and what works for us may not work for another. All I can suggest is being open-minded and listen to your partner. :)
Just visiting:
Why isn't it ok? Is it because it's not normal?
Is swinging normal? Is gambling normal? Is drinking alcohol normal? Is driving over the speed limit normal?
Religion and our society has stamped our minds with this notion of normal.
It's a crutch that many of us have chosen to use to conform to society yet we "bend" the rules when no one is looking or when the sun comes down and it becomes easier to be sneaky.
I don't pretend or am trying to help others pretend that it's ok for them to get HJ's. It is however, OK for me. I am an adult and I am responsible for my actions just as others are for their actions. I don't drink or smoke so maybe I should pretend that it's ok for other to not drink or not smoke or do drugs, etc...
Anonymous (wife) is angry because she feels betrayed and lied to...
I get it.
But her husband lied to her and it's her perception that he cheated on her because it was not what she expected. She feels what they shared was a lie. She will get over it and find another guy or girl to fall in love with again. If he betrayed her trust then he will suffer as well. He will lose 1/2 his stuff, ½ his money, his home, his everyday routine, daily time with his children, and be forced to watch his children grow up with another man in their lives.
That's not CJ's fault and she shouldn't have to have bad Karma wished on her because of some fat, sloppy, non-sexual sappy housewife whos husband looked elsewhere for sex because she was unwilling to fulfill his needs. I bet you his was meeting her needs by buying food, paying the bills, taking care of the mortgage, buying her gifts, and making sure her car was working.
We have to understand and apply this single rule before all others. Rules have to be established as to what should and what should not be expected from each other. Period.
Every couple divorces sooner or later. Even if they stay together for the longevity of their lives, eventually we all stop being "lovers" and start being "friends". It's the normal course of life.
But women will always want to be romanced because it makes them feel special. They'll always want shoes, flowers, make-up, and day spa packages. It's who they are. It’s in their genetic structure (DNA).
And men will always want to be sex, and hand-jobs, watch porn, and visit strip clubs because it's who we are. It’s in our genetic structure (DNA).
Tony Robbins says "Life is about avoiding pain and seeking pleasure". Look it up. Everything we do will 1. Avoid Pain and or 2. Seek Pleasure. Think about it. EVERYTHING comes down do that lowest denominator.
We all singularly choose the level at which we avoid pain and or seek pleasure.
No one other than I, is responsible for what I do.
Just visiting:
Why isn't it ok? Is it because it's not normal?Is swinging normal? Is gambling normal? Is drinking alcohol normal? Is driving over the speed limit normal?
Religion and our society has stamped our minds with this notion of normal.
It's a crutch that many of us have chosen to use to conform to society yet we "bend" the rules when no one is looking or when the sun comes down and it becomes easier to be sneaky.
I don't pretend or am trying to help others pretend that it's ok for them to get HJ's. It is however, OK for me. I am an adult and I am responsible for my actions just as others are for their actions. I don't drink or smoke so maybe I should pretend that it's ok for other to not drink or not smoke or do drugs, etc...
Anonymous (wife) is angry because she feels betrayed and lied to...I get it.
But her husband lied to her and it's her perception that he cheated on her because it was not what she expected. She feels what they shared was a lie. She will get over it and find another guy or girl to fall in love with again. If he betrayed her trust then he will suffer as well. He will lose 1/2 his stuff, ½ his money, his home, his everyday routine, daily time with his children, and be forced to watch his children grow up with another man in their lives.
That's not CJ's fault and she shouldn't have to have bad Karma wished on her because of some fat, sloppy, non-sexual sappy housewife whos husband looked elsewhere for sex because she was unwilling to fulfill his needs. I bet you his was meeting her needs by buying food, paying the bills, taking care of the mortgage, buying her gifts, and making sure her car was working.
We have to understand and apply this single rule before all others. Rules have to be established as to what should and what should not be expected from each other. Period.
Every couple divorces sooner or later. Even if they stay together for the longevity of their lives, eventually we all stop being "lovers" and start being "friends". It's the normal course of life.
But women will always want to be romanced because it makes them feel special. They'll always want shoes, flowers, make-up, and day spa packages. It's who they are. It’s in their genetic structure (DNA). And men will always want to be sex, and hand-jobs, watch porn, and visit strip clubs because it's who we are. It’s in our genetic structure (DNA).
Tony Robbins says "Life is about avoiding pain and seeking pleasure". Look it up. Everything we do will 1. Avoid Pain and or 2. Seek Pleasure. Think about it. EVERYTHING comes down do that lowest denominator.
We all singularly choose the level at which we avoid pain and or seek pleasure. No one other than I, is responsible for what I do.
Just visiting: Part 1
Why isn't it ok? Is it because it's not normal?Is swinging normal? Is gambling normal? Is drinking alcohol normal? Is driving over the speed limit normal?
Religion and our society has stamped our minds with this notion of normal.
It's a crutch that many of us have chosen to use to conform to society yet we "bend" the rules when no one is looking or when the sun comes down and it becomes easier to be sneaky.
I don't pretend or am trying to help others pretend that it's ok for them to get HJ's. It is however, OK for me. I am an adult and I am responsible for my actions just as others are for their actions. I don't drink or smoke so maybe I should pretend that it's ok for other to not drink or not smoke or do drugs, etc...
Anonymous (wife) is angry because she feels betrayed and lied to...I get it.
But her husband lied to her and it's her perception that he cheated on her because it was not what she expected. She feels what they shared was a lie. She will get over it and find another guy or girl to fall in love with again. If he betrayed her trust then he will suffer as well. He will lose 1/2 his stuff, ½ his money, his home, his everyday routine, daily time with his children, and be forced to watch his children grow up with another man in their lives.
Just visiting: Part 2
That's not CJ's fault and she shouldn't have to have bad Karma wished on her because of some fat, sloppy, non-sexual sappy housewife whos husband looked elsewhere for sex because she was unwilling to fulfill his needs. I bet you his was meeting her needs by buying food, paying the bills, taking care of the mortgage, buying her gifts, and making sure her car was working.
We have to understand and apply this single rule before all others. Rules have to be established as to what should and what should not be expected from each other. Period.
Every couple divorces sooner or later. Even if they stay together for the longevity of their lives, eventually we all stop being "lovers" and start being "friends". It's the normal course of life.
But women will always want to be romanced because it makes them feel special. They'll always want shoes, flowers, make-up, and day spa packages. It's who they are. It’s in their genetic structure (DNA). And men will always want to be sex, and hand-jobs, watch porn, and visit strip clubs because it's who we are. It’s in our genetic structure (DNA).
Tony Robbins says "Life is about avoiding pain and seeking pleasure". Look it up. Everything we do will 1. Avoid Pain and or 2. Seek Pleasure. Think about it. EVERYTHING comes down do that lowest denominator.
We all singularly choose the level at which we avoid pain and or seek pleasure.
No one other than I, is responsible for what I do.
Joe
Anonymous: Handjobs on the side are not OK if they aren't OK with your partner.
It's about trust and betrayal. If you don't understand by now... well, you likely never will.
Later :)
It's only betrayal if...
If a tree falls to the ground in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?
Just saying: U can't sit on both sides. U can't hand out moral views and then say U have participated in what U yourself say is wrong.
Your views and morals are for you and you shouldn't impose them on others. The beliefs are yours and yours only.
Joe - What evidence do you have to present that it is our genetic code to cheat? This assertion is often made, but in science there is no evidence of it. Its based on a very rudimentary understanding of genetics and natural selection. Different species determine the best method of procreation depending upon their environment over time. For some, monogamy makes the most sense, for others polyamory does. There is plenty of evidence of both in nature.
However so far as I am aware, there has been no discovery of a poly-gene or any other such proof that for humans it is beneficial to 'spread their seed'. That does not mean that such a gene does not exist, mind you. It could. But asserting that is akin to asserting that there is a gene for any given behaviour, without evidence of such and ignoring other evidence such as cultural, religious or historical reasons. Furthermore, such a gene would affect every member of the species to one degree or another, and while someone inclined to cheat may not understand how others are not so inclined, that does not mean that others are merely supressing it, or that those who do cheat are not inclined to cheat.
And it certainly does not mean that it is genetic in either direction. It may be, it may not be, no way to know at the present time.
Anonymous: Yes, a falling tree makes a sound if there's no one to hear it; stealing money is still stealing, even if you're not caught; and cheating is cheating, and it is wrong.
These aren't beliefs unique to me... they are held by most moral people.
Your arguments only prove my point. The basics of trust - and evidently morality - are foreign to you.
Reflex: I said "want/need sex, not cheat!
Just visiting: Good thing you prefaced your comments by saying "I certainly don't hold any moral high ground" and "I'm hardly Mr. Squeaky Clean. I've gone to rub-and-tug parlors, and I may well do it again".
You last comment may have the appearance of you having a higher moral ground.
Thanks for proving my point as well. Your perception is your reality and vice-versa.
I'm sure that meant something :/
It meant you're a hypocrite.
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But women will always want to be romanced because it makes them feel special. They'll always want shoes, flowers, make-up, and day spa packages. It's who they are. It’s in their genetic structure (DNA). And men will always want to be sex, and hand-jobs, watch porn, and visit strip clubs because it's who we are. It’s in our genetic structure (DNA).
Joe - This is the paragraph I was reffering to, as well as the assertion in the previous thread that cheating was genetic. There is no gene for "loves porn", in fact through much of human history there was little if any porn at least as we would recognize it today. Furthermore, the idea that its a 'male' thing is cultural rather than any ingrained notion. There are societies and cultures where these roles you speak of are reversed, which strongly implies there is nothing genetic about any of it.
You can state that these things are true of you. True of your friends. Or even true of your culture. But stating that its true of homo sapiens is taking it too far unless you happen to be on the cutting edge of genetic research and can point us at the papers you published on the topic.
" But women will always want to be romanced because it makes them feel special. They'll always want shoes, flowers, make-up, and day spa packages. It's who they are. It’s in their genetic structure (DNA).
And men will always want to be sex, and hand-jobs, watch porn, and visit strip clubs because it's who we are. It’s in our genetic structure (DNA)."
So, essentially, all men love to fuck each other.
Or there's a third gender that provides this service which shoes-flowers-spa obviously do not, and which I'm not aware of?
Whatever...
You two guys are nitpickers and angry.
CJ, hook them up with a session each, on me. Ice wants a male masseuse since I never said anything about dudes.
No, not angry... I just don't think we should be rationalizing away bad behavior. I'll be happy to get set up with CJ, though :)
Hey guys!
You're BOTH welcome to set up sessions. And let me tell ya, after all the arguing going on out here - you guys all need a nice relaxing massage and hand release to calm you down. Who knows, maybe then you'll see that the occasional anonymous handjob is not such a big deal afterall.
Do I consider an anonymous handjob delivered by a professional erotic masseuse as cheating on your wife? Yes.
Do I consider placing 2 fingers in a circle and moving them up and down over a customers prick as cheating on a boyfriend? No.
And that logic is why I'm OK with this lifestyle and you guys get entertained with sordid stories. At the end of the day, I really don't give a rats ass about how many times I made that circle with my fingers, or who I did it for. I've got more important things to do.
CJ
You haven't really used logic. You've just stated that you consider one thing cheating but not the other, without giving any reasons why.
If it's not cheating then why don't you tell your boyfriend about it?
It's about honesty. You can't be honest with your bf because you know if he found out what you're doing it would hurt him, big time.
And people can say whatever they want about enculturated values of monogamy, but there's no getting around the fact that the man you "make love" to, or fuck, or whatever you call it, has no clue about who you really are.
And that's shady.
Now I'm confused. When I say it's about honesty, you say there's no obligation... then you tell CJ "it's about honesty."
Which is it?
I'm getting the impression you're switching positions as necessary simply so that you can criticize others.
I think multiple people are posting anonymously.
If people don't use names, it difficult to track a back and forth discussion.
This is lucky.
I didn't respond to you responding to me in the initial post because you missed the point CJ:
People don't need to give their addresses; if you talk to people's wives what you say will almost invariably make them decide that their suspicions are 'correct', no matter whether you've confirmed it or denied it.
If you invite people who are already suspicious to talk to you then you're going to confirm their suspicions, even if you swear there's no chance at all they've visited a massage therapist, because that's human nature.
That was a terrible accident waiting to happen.
I strongly back up the "CJ needs a new Ipad. Calling for donations" idea.
I also think that whatever we do with our privates has to be thought about before and after in terms of trust, guilt, moral decisions and any other factor you might consider relevant.
Finally, we are left with yes-no questions easy to answer.
Maybe I am totally off topic.
This is a really late comment...
I found out my husband went on backpage and got a "therapeutic" massage. I asked if it was a happy ending massage, thinking that we didn't have secrets and if I asked, he would tell me. At first, he said he made an appointment, but didn't end up going because he was worried she wasn't "legit". But all this didn't really make sense to me. And sure enough, a few days later he said he did get a massage from this girl, but it wasn't an erotic massage.
But now, I don't really believe him. I found your web site looking for "code words" for erotic massages. The ad that he responded to had a lot of the code words you mentioned like "Incall" and "shower facility" but in bold letters it says "Services are THERAPEUTIC ONLY". But there are a lot of pics of her cleavage and her half dressed on the ad. I don't really know what to believe. I would feel better if he just said from the beginning that he went for an erotic massage. Now I just feel duped. I guess I married one of these douches. Maybe she really means "THERAPEUTIC ONLY"? Regardless, I think he was out to find someone to give him a HE.
I don't really think it's that weird that a married man would fantasize about being with other people. And I'm not anti porn either. But I guess I didn't expect him to go for one of these massages. But I don't think we ever sat down and discussed by line item, what we thought was cheating either.
I actually find your blog very helpful for the wife's point of view. I don't feel like any of the infidelity or suspicion sites or very helpful - just a bunch of paranoid angry people. I don't know what's right or wrong or if it even matters since we all define it different ways, but thanks for the glimpse behind the scenes. I would never know otherwise.
New anon here.
They say that integrity is doing the right thing when no one's looking. Doing something behind your partner's back and without their knowledge is betraying them. Thinking that in the absence of witnesses, it didn't happen, or that what they don't know can't hurt them is magical, not adult thinking.
But most of us don't live righteous lives, we operate in the grey. We're about survival and what feels good, as someone said, so we keep hurting each other.
I try to be as honest as humanly possible. I am also very alone. There are no coincidences.
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